On Calvinism pt. 2

From reading the comments on the last post, I can tell this is a divisive issue. I have to tell you that I am by no means completely certain about my position. I may sometimes act like I am certain, like I am wise and smart and all the rest, but that's more a defense mechanism than anything else. I'm as much adrift here as you are. I have arrived in this particular theological stance because I have been seeking Truth, and I seem to have followed it here. I may wake up tomorrow and find that Truth has inexplicably migrated, and if I am half as wise as I think I am I'll follow it out of the position I am now in. I hope not to convince you about the Rightness of where I am, but rather that you and I can look for truth together. Unlike some, I would rather seek Truth than be Right. If you and I are able to look for Truth together, then you are my friend, regardless of where you seek from. I hope that you see it the same way.

So. On to business. There are 3 people in particular that have affected me greatly when it comes to my position on predestination. All of these people were Calvinists, even though I am not really "one of them." The first person was George, whom you heard about last week. The second is my friend "Trevor," who has the dubious honour of being the only person I know who describes himself as a "Charismatic Calvinist." The conversation in particular that affected me took place during my third year at college, when I was married, commuting, and spending my free time waxing philosophical in the Commuter's Lounge. I walked in to catch the tail end of a tongue-lashing that Trevor was receiving from Margaret, a mutual friend of ours. Here, to the best of my recollection, is what followed.

"And I'll never look at you the same way again!" the woman's voice was audible through the heavy door of the Commuter's Lounge, but once opened it elevated to burning-bush decibel levels. I had obviously walked into an especially inopportune conversation, and I was about to beat a hasty retreat when the owner of that voice - Margaret, a fine-arts student - came round the corner towards the door and swooned dramatically past me. She spun on her heel and attempted to slam the door after her, but it had one of those hydraulic closing systems that are so popular with fire doors and simply refused to accommodate her. After a few brief, frustrating seconds, she gave a little sob, and disappeared. The door hissed shut apologetically a moment later.

"Hey, Trevor, having your customary luck with the ladies?"

He chuckled ruefully at my comment. "Nah, this wasn't a wife-finding attempt. I'm still a student, you know, and some of us don't go looking for our wives in 'bridal college.'"

I took the jab light-heartedly. "Still, you know what they say - if Bible College is the game-"

"Then seminary is sudden-death overtime, I gotcha."

"Right. So what was that all about?"

His face looked uncharacteristically glum. "Well, we were having a discussion about theology..."

"Ah."

"And I told her I was a Calvinist..."

"Ah."

"And then she just blew up. I didn't get to say anything else."

I frowned. "That doesn't sound like her. What about you being a Calvinist set her off?"

"I gather that her family are all non-Christians. I said 'Calvinist,' and she heard 'I believe that God has intentionally damned your whole family.'"

"Yikes!" I tried to be sympathetic, but to be honest with you I could see where she was coming from. Wasn't that what Calvinists believed? I thought I'd try and clear it up. "But isn't that basically what a Calvinist believes?"

Trevor got an Et tu, Brute? look on his face, but gamely responded. "I suppose they could, but they'd only be giving half the picture."

"What do you mean?"

"I mean that it isn't so 2-dimensional. 'God predestines people, therefore no one has a choice and we're just pawns.' Some people make it so cut-and-dried, and I think there's alot more to it than that."

"Like what?"

"I think it's more 3-dimensional. We are still real, choosing creatures, and our choices have consequences."

I held up a hand. "Hang on a second, Trevor. If God is predestining everything, then no one really has a choice, do they? And God's just making people and condemning them arbitrarily."

"Why did you pick a ham sandwich for lunch today?"

I looked down at my lunch, which was sitting on the table in front of me. "Uhh... I like ham?"

"So no one put a gun to your head and said, 'Grey Owl, if you don't take a ham sandwich today I'll kill you?'"

"No... but if God predestined everything, then I had no choice."

"Really? Did you feel coerced? Did God make you take a sandwich you didn't want today?"

This was starting to feel a little silly. "No, of course not."

"So deciding to take a ham sandwich was your decision? One that was made freely and without coercion? One that was made because of Who Grey Owl Is and What He Likes?"

"Yeah..." I was starting to see where this was going.

"Think about it like this. God creates the Universe. He has perfect foreknowledge about what the future holds. He creates humanity. And he creates every individual person unique and truly themselves."

"What do you mean, 'truly themselves?'"

"I mean that everyone makes decisions that are authentically theirs. They are decisions independent of coercion and force. God doesn't 'make them' do anything - he creates them with needs, wants, and choices to make that they will make authentically. God doesn't make the decisions for them - even if he does know what choice they will make."

I wasn't convinced. "I'm not sure I understand. If he creates them unable to respond to him, then isn't he responsible for their sinning?"

Trevor gave this some thought. "I don't think so. He created everyone as themselves. Let's take an imaginary person - Joe. Joe is born, has his life, and dies. Joe has likes, and dislikes. And Joe makes authentic decisions, independent of any interference. And one of those choices is to not repent - to stay as his is, and choose to be apart from God."

"How do we know that God isn't making him choose that?"

"Think about when you've sinned - when you make that decision knowing it's wrong. Is anybody but you making that decision?"

I was forced to admit he was right. "So what about the people who are saved? God just closes his eyes and picks at random the lucky ones he's going to save? The ones he's going to override? Because that's what it is, isn't it? He picks some and decides to ignore their choices and give them faith so they can be saved. Right?"

"Not at all. Think of it this way: You are a sinful person. Now you and Joe are different, because even though you aren't able to choose God because of your sin, you would if you could, because that would be an authentic choice of Grey Owl. But you can't choose God on your own, because your sin prevents you. So God enables you to choose him - gives you faith - so that you can be saved. Because you want to be saved, unlike Joe, who does not."

A light bulb went on in my head. I felt something slide into place and arrive with an almost audible "click." "So it's not that God just picks people at random to be saved, it's that he sees there are people who want to be saved, and he saves them. And he created them as real, authentic creatures, just like the ones who don't want to be saved, even if they could be. Neither group is forced into anything, they act completely as themselves. And despite their inability to save themselves, God saves the ones who truly desire to be saved. So everyone who wants to be saved, is saved." I paused for breath. "That seems to make sense. But this sounds suspiciously like 'Free Will' doctrine - what makes this any different? Because it seems to me once you introduce Predestination, the Free Will ground seems - well, iffy."

"That goes back to the problem I was saying before, about 2-dimensional ideas. Predestination and Free Will aren't mutually exclusive - only their 2-dimensional versions are."

"Huh?"

Trevor took a moment to sip from his water bottle. "It's like this: the problem with 'Free Will only' ideas - 2-dimensional ones - is that they make salvation up to us as humans. God extends salvation to everyone, but he doesn't get it all the way. We still need to choose under our own power, and 'make up' the distance that God couldn't cover. So really, God doesn't save anyone - we do. That's the problem when you refuse to consider the Predestination aspect of salvation."

"Right - and the problem with 2-dimensional Predestination is that it dehumanizes us - makes us not authentic beings. God doesn't pay attention to how he created us, he just arbitrarily picks and chooses who goes up and who goes down. It leaves no room at all for choice."

"Exactly! In a way, they must both be correct - and so we come back to the reason that I'm a Calvinist. John Calvin himself said this; 'Scripture affirms both Free Will and Predestination, and does not attempt to resolve the tension between the two.'"

I felt as though a heavy load had been taken off my back. Trevor and I sat there, awash in the afterglow of a rousing discussion that ended not badly after all. At times it had been the mental equivalent of trying to run through waist-deep mud, but we had arrived. I had to admit that my preconceived notions of Calvinism were far from accurate, and said so.

Trevor grinned. "Yeah, we're not all assholes, are we?"

I chuckled as I rose to leave. "Well, I think the jury'll stay out on that one for a while."

"Blessings, brother."

"You too. Cheers."

I had almost reached the door when another thought occurred to me - this one another serious stumbling block I had to the Predestination argument. With one hand on the door I turned back.
"Hey Trevor - one more question."

"Shoot."

"What about people the gospel never reaches - like bushmen in Africa, or the Incas, or... unborn children? What about them? Are they all in hell?"

Trevor actually shuddered at that. "Why on earth would you want to think about that?"

"It's just a question that's been on my mind. What do you think?"

"To be honest, I've never given it much thought. I can't help you there."

"Ah." I tried not to look disappointed, and turned the handle. Trevor's voice stopped me.

"But I think I can tell you who can."

to be continued...

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Delay

My computer crashed and erased an hour of writing. I lost part 2 of the Calvinism series, completely and irretrivably. I don't know if I have the energy or the time to start it all over again, so it'll be a few more hours or days. Sorry folks.

My computer is evil. That is all.

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On Calvinism pt. 1

Some people call me a Calvinist. Those people would not be entirely accurate - I didn't even know what the Five Points were until earlier this year, and I've never even cracked a book by John Calvin. They would be more accurate in saying I am a believer in predestination, although this itself was a more recent development. So I decided that's what I wanted to talk about.

There are many excellent discussions out there about Free Will vs Predestination vs Open Theism. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, so I'll save the gripping theological analysis for my betters. Instead, I want to tell you about three Calvinists I've known who have helped shape me into the kind of Christian I am today. Hopefully, something I write here will resonate with you and help you understand why I am a believer in what is a decidedly unpopular doctrine today. You should know, however, that I have no interest in "converting" you to my way of thinking. The vast majority of my friends are Arminian, and I couldn't care less about it. This is just what I believe to be true.

My first encounter with a Calvinist was at Providence College, about 6 years ago. It was my first year, first semester, first month and first week of classes. I knew next to nothing about church history and was still unclear about what denomination I belonged to. Needless to say, I was somewhat naive.

Enter George, straight from the American south. I don't remember which state, but he let it be known that he was from the "Bible Belt," and proud of it. Several years older than me, second year student, and On Fire for The Lord. Found the best way to worship God was to engage in discussions about spiritual matters. These discussions would often become heated and frequently turn into arguments. George was a good friend and a decent floor hockey player, but disagree with him theologically and he'd not stop short of questioning your salvation. All of this was unknown to me at the time of our encounter.

We were sitting in the lounge of the men's dorm, drawing close to 1 in the morning. That's prime theology time, for you rookies. I was enjoying the fellowship with my new dorm brothers as we compared classes and shared our stories of faith and Christian service with each other. All was peaceful and Godly. (and not one of us mentioned the cute girls we'd noticed. Honest.)

A couple guys went out to make a 7-11 run, and George and I were alone. He turned to me with one of those roguish Christian smiles on his face. I didn't know enough to be worried.

"So Grey Owl," he said, "Which is it? Calvinist or Arminian?"

"Err, sorry?" I was reasonably sure he was still speaking english, but there were a lot of international students about and I wanted to make sure. "Could you repeat that?"

"Are you a Calvinist or Arminian?" he said it again very slowly. Stared at me with disturbing intensity.

Panicked. Took my best guess. "Uh, I like girls, if that's what you mean."

A blank stare was returned to me. I began to sweat. My first week in dorm and already people thought I was gay! He shook his head slowly and tried again.

"Do you believe in Free Will or Predestination? You know, Arminian or Calvinism?"

"Oh, that!" I laughed with relief. Well, this I thought I could handle. "I guess I believe in Free Will. I mean, we're supposed to make a decision for Christ, right? How could we do that without Free Will?" I gave myself a mental pat on the back. Done and done! My first theological debate a success! I wanted to call my mother, but it was 1 in the morning. That, and George wasn't finished with me yet.

"Oh really?" He sounded decidedly sly. I nodded confidently, and he moved in for the attack. "But Paul says we only respond to God by faith, and God gives us the faith to respond to him. Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 12. We can only be saved if he gives us the faith to be saved."

Confusion. He sounded correct - lots of bible verses at the end, so it must be true - but it sounded so one-sided. Why would God act like that?

I tried asking. "If God wants us to respond to him, but we can't unless he gives us faith, then he can't very well get upset at the people who don't respond, because they can't respond unless he gives them faith, can they? So he's angry at them for nothing, really." It seemed to make sense in my head, but coming out my words were all jumbled. I felt slow and stupid, while Georges argument came out smooth and practiced.

"No, God holds them under righteous condemnation for their sinful nature, which they have since before they were born. They are punished eternally in Hell because he's a just and righteous God, and they deserve it. God only saves the elect, who have heard his Gospel and been given the faith to accept it." He quoted a few more passages but I can't remember the references. I began to get concerned.

"Now hang on a sec, George. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why wouldn't God give everyone an equal chance to be saved? If it's not up to them - I mean, if the choice isn't up to them - then God is condemning them for being exactly what he made them be. That doesn't seem fair." I was a bit more sure of myself here. "And if only people who hear the gospel even have a chance, what about the billions of people who have never heard it? Do they not even matter?"

"They exist to give glory to God. That's what matters." George had drew himself up and was in preaching mode. A thin film of sweat glistened on his forehead, and there was a holy (feverish?) gleam in his eye. He wasn't even looking me in the eye when he continued. "And who ever said God is fair? He's just and he's righteous and he's perfect. Everyone but the elect is sinful and hateful to his eyes. He saves the elect, and only because it glorifies him."

"Sounds awfully Narcissistic to me. Does God have self-esteem issues?"

George ignored me. "The people who die and go to Hell give God glory, and the people he saves give him glory. That's the purpose of mankind."

I tried to recapture some ground. "But it really sucks to be the people who aren't picked, doesn't it? And it's kind of arbitrary - like God just picks some people to save and the rest get sent off to Hell because... because he just decides 'some go up and some go down?'"

"Well, yes. We all belong to God, and we're his to do with as he will. The clay can't get angry with the potter, you know. We don't have the right."

I was getting flustered and more confused by the minute. "But... but the Bible says God is loving. Why would a loving God be so arbitrary? And why would he hold people responsible if he basically makes our decisions for us?"

"Grey Owl, I already told you. He holds us responsible for our sinful nature, which we have from before birth. Even if we don't choose our actions or path, we still have to pay the price for our sins. And God is loving, but you don't expect his idea of love and your to be anything alike, do you? He loves us for - "

" - his glory, right, yeah." Felt absolutely awful. I never knew that this is what God was like. I thought he was a lot nicer than that. I thought God liked me! Loved me, even! Now I felt like a checkmark on some heavenly clipboard. Could George be right?

Suddenly remembered something else he said. "Hey George, you said we have our sinful nature from birth?"

He frowned. "No, our sinful nature is a part of us. That's one of the most important parts of Calvinism - Total depravity, the first of the five points of Calvinism. We are sinful as a part of our being."

"Then what about stillborn or aborted babies? What about children who die from cribdeath?"

"They are under the same condemnation as the rest of the sinners."

I went cold inside. "You mean they're in hell?"

"Well, yes, they are. The gospel could never have reached them, which means that God has destined them for punishment for their sinful nature. If he had wanted them saved, they would be alive and part of the elect."

This was too much. "You're not serious."

"It is all for God's glory. You shouldn't feel bad about them, because they are receiving just punishment -"

I cut him off. "I'm done, George."

He looked pastorally concerned. "Listen -"

"No!" I practically shouted. "This is totally wrong! I could accept what you said on some level, but not this! God would never do that!"

"His ways are not our ways, you know."

"Look George, I'm not as smart as you. But I know Jesus, and he would never let that happen. He loves kids! And if Jesus and God are the same person, then God couldn't do that either." I stopped feeling cold and started to get very, very hot and upset. "And personally, if God is anything like what you say, then I think we're all better off without him."

George started to get angry. "That's heresy! Our doctrines -"

"Oh, fuck your doctrines!" I snapped. That rocked him back a step. "I'm done with listening to this. Everything I've ever heard about the gospel and Jesus tells me that God loves us, and hurts for us, and saves us out of love. If you're trying to convince me that this same God is selfish and gleeful about people going to hell, then I think you and I are worshipping different Gods. And I think mine beats yours all hollow."

I stood up to go. "And next time you want to bring this up with me, think on this: If you convince me that what you told me today is true Christianity, then I will leave the church and never look back. You will drive me away. So you'd better decide if convincing me your right is worth my soul." And I stalked from the room.

We spoke again a few days later. He apologized for not being sensitive, and I apologized for swearing and being "exceedingly dramatic." We played floor hockey together a few times, hung out at dorm, and prayed together at Bible studies. He helped me with my Church History, and I helped him with his Intro Psychology. He didn't return the next year, but we certainly ended on better terms than we began.

It must seem very strange, then, that after a beginning like this I am where I am today. If you want to hear the rest of the story, then stick around. It's been nice talking to you.

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Update

The post planned for today will not be appearing due to some technical difficulties. It will be put up tomorrow by 4pm Central Time. Instead, I share with you a picture that makes me chuckle and then feel guilty.

Tragic and hilareous. I call it, "Tralareous."

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Thanking you for your patience and harassment

Well it's been a month shy a day, but here is the long-prophesied update. I am a negligent blogger and deficient as a human being for letting it go so long. But hey, I was in Texas at the time.

And speaking of Texas, what they say is true: It would be inadvisable to mess with it. I thought the "SUV's with Gun-Racks" comments I'd been hearing before I left were stereotypical at best and prejudiced at worst, but they really were everywhere. You could invade a middle eastern country solely with the arsenal found in the state's Landrover population. It was a little surreal. Of course, driving for 30 hours straight and arriving in a place that is almost 60 degrees C different than you left makes you feel a bit like you've been in a time warp already, but you get what I mean. It's like a whole other country down there.

Friendly people, though. Every restaurant and corner gas store I went into I had very good conversations with the employees and customers. Most of them were vaguely aware that there was a place called Winnipeg "up there," although a few were less sure that I was telling the truth about our current weather. The nicest fellow I met was a used bookstore owner/local treasure hunter (no lie!), who managed to have the next copy I needed in Stephan King's "Dark Tower" series. His quirky little store remains one of the places in my mind that I'll always think of when I think of Texas. The next nicest was the Nebraska State Trooper who gave me a ticket at 2 in the morning on our way through his lovely state (which I have yet to see in daylight). He was such a pleasant fellow that it was impossible to be mad about the situation. Well, not too mad.

We drove down as a family, with my wife's parents and her siblings (a sister, two brothers and a sister-in-law). It was a good group to go down with, although both of my brothers-in-law manage to look as much Islamic as two Mennonites can. Needless to say, we were searched at the border. Not a bad experience, really, although while we sat in the (obviously) bugged waiting room I had to fight an insane desire to lean over to my brother-in-law and say, "Durka durka durka mohammad ali jihad," (see "Team America World Police." No wait don't, it was dreadful).

Great food where we stayed. Ate at an awesome Mexican restaurant which had the best REAL tacos and fahitas I've ever tasted. The salsa was something else, too - kinda like being kicked in the face by a pepper wrapped around a steel toe. Later we had seafood, which disagreed with me for some reason. I swear it was food poisoning, although my in-laws felt no ill effects. This led to some harsh words being exchanged, with opinions about my gastro-intestinal state being debated heatedly. The question was raised, "How can it be food poisoning if we all ate the same thing and you're the only one who's sick?" We were divided on our ultimate conclusion - it was a toss up between "Grey Owl is a nancy-boy" and "the inlaws have the immune systems of junkyard dogs."

Saw palm trees. Never seen them before. Absolutely ridiculous looking things. What was God thinking?

Had to drive through Dallas and Houston on the same day. Never been on the freeway before, so it was an experience, let me tell you. I used to think the Perimeter Highway around Winnipeg was a pretty big deal, but when you see 6 layers of interstate stacked above your head and three more below and there's five lanes one way and everyone's going so fast and was that our exit dammit it was where the hell can you do a u-turn on this crazy highway - I almost had a stroke. Seriously. This prairie boy couldn't take it. Oh, I did alright, but I was about ready to cry when I saw open road again.

So that was our trip. There was a good deal more that happened, but this is a blog about faith and life, so on to the goods.

I've got a serious post in the works for monday. I'm taking long with it because I can't write on the weekends - no internet at home yet; that's what we get for moving into a new development. I'm really behind in reading everyone's blogs, haven't checked them in about 3-4 weeks. So I'll be slowly getting back into the swing of things, hopefully be able to comment here and there. I've missed you folks, and appreciated the emails while I was away. It's nice to know that people care, and even nicer to know that someone likes what I write. So stay tuned, thanks for reading, and I'll be around. Cheers.

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