On Worship Singing
Warning: This is a rant. If you want something warm and fuzzy then I suggest you go lick a cat or something. Still here? Well at least read all the way to the end before you send me hate mail.Modern worship (the singing kind) really bugs me. I can hardly explain how much it bugs me. If you've ever sat beside me in a worship service you'd notice that I don't sing. Maybe I read my Bible, maybe I just look around. But I won't sing.
It's not because I don't like music. I love music - everyone in my family plays at least one instrument, myself included, and I've got 2 close relatives who are professional musicians. And the quality of worship music these days could hardly be better - we've got 4-part harmony, brass quartets and jazzy choirs all over the place. No, the music is good.
There's basically two main reasons why I can't stand today's worship. There's more, but I'll keep it simple. I'll expand on each of them straight aways, then I'll tell you why I started feeling this way, and then (if you're really good) I'll tell you a secret. Ready? Here goes: The first reason is the lyrics, the second is the emotionalism. Now for the unpacking.
1. The lyrics piss me off. What kind of crap are we trying to pull? Steve Bell was absolutely right, there is such a lack of genuine theological accuracy in our songs. Some of them sound like they were written for your boyfriend or girlfriend. Some are wildly out of sync with scripture, or at least have extremely problematic wording.
Take Days of Elijah for instance. If there was ever a song that sent me into a quivering rage, this is it. It sounds like someone gathered up all the nice-sounding verses in the Bible and plunked them down all in one happy, confusing mess. It doesn't even make any sense. And if 20 christians in North America singing that song have experienced the stuff in it - "famine and darkness and sword" for instance - I will eat a pair of Dennis Rodman's gym shorts. Used ones. Maybe with some pasta sauce or some catsup. Or another instance that John Mortensen describes:
A minor rhyming disaster may be observed at the close of the song My Lord, What Sacrifice where the lyricist needed something to rhyme with “You took the fall” (never mind the bizarre metaphor of faking defeat in a boxing match) and chose "You thought of me above all”. Not only does the final line sound limp and contrived, but it commits a theological misstep: Christ thought of Me above all? Really? Above doing the Father’s will and defeating powers of evil and the immediate sensation of pain? Begging your pardon: the only person who thinks of Me above all is Me.
I'm sure we can all think of similar lyrical slip-ups made in the name of mushy love or rythmic constraints, but come on folks! If there's anything we should be trying extra special hard to keep from losing anything in the translation to song it's the Gospel!
2. The emotionalism really pisses me off. I don't even know where to start. Typically, the thing that irks me the most is that generally the whole show is about getting people to"experience God." We talk about what a great worship service it was, how we really felt God "move," or (in some cases) how we didn't feel anything and it must be the worship team's fault. We sing songs about how wonderful we feel, and if we don't feel wonderful we "sing it 'till we mean it." We've got our hands in the air and we're saying "yes lord" and "oh Jesus" at all the right times, as indicated by Worship Leader Barbie.
I know that people may be very genuine in their feelings, but the plain and simple fact is this: emotions are very easy to tamper with. I've taken training as a couselor and a psychologist, and I'm well aware of the ins and outs of tricking someone else's mind into doing what you want. It's very hard to sing along when you recognize that the worship leader is trying to pull on your strings to make you dance the way they want. It's really unnerving when you know what they're doing. I've learned that human emotions are fickle and not to be trusted, and that if you go into a situation expecting an experience of a particular kind you'll typically get it, one way or another.
Why do I feel this way? I'm glad you asked. I've had a very rough time of it when it comes to worship. I had a couple charismatic friends after I got saved in my mid teens, and I often went to services with them. They taught me how to worship, how to do all the right things that made God give you the good feelings. They taught me that if I didn't feel anything, then either I was doing it wrong or I had something wrong with me.
I can't tell you how many tearful recommitments I made to God night after night, trying desperately to make the same emotional connection I saw them making. I even faked it for a while, and they rejoiced with me. I did this for three years. Then I started to notice; their mystical connection with God certainly didn't seem to do them much good. They still complained about the worship band, they still spread rumors about others in the group, they still treated those different from them like dirt. There was hypocrisy and all manner of unsavoury things going on.
So I was forced to conclude that the experiences themselves were either a) fake or b) not powerful enough to effect any change in their lives. The second option seemed silly - how could encountering God in such a powerful way as they seemed to on a regular basis not have any effect? That left one option - they were fake - and this filled me with both relief and disappointment.
I've maybe had 2 genuine worship experiences since then. It's been about 5 years, and I've had no indication that I was wrong in my conclusions. I'm not going to judge anyone who chooses to worship God through singing - I'm sure that many are perfectly sincere, and if it makes them more like Christ then hey, why not? I also had some good friends in Jon With no H, Tyler the Charismatic Calvinist and Boon the Trucker, both of whom were immeasurable help in keeping me "in the fold," so to speak, despite the bitterness that threatened to overwhelm me. I'll admit, it's a wound that never fully closed.
But hey, worship really isn't about feelings or singing, is it? After all, Jesus says several times, "I desire mercy not sacrifice," and God himself indicates throughout the Bible that true worship is an attitude, a lifestyle, reflected in our actions towards others. True worship is a life dedicated to God, lived out in Spirit and in Truth, actively choosing to love God with all our hearts, mind and strength and loving our neighbors as ourselves. An I think that beats singing all hollow.
So. Do you want to hear the secret? Well I'll tell you. There's a stoplight that I usually have to stop at on my way home from work. The stoplight is right by a big church. I think it's an evangelical church of some kind, I've never actually checked. This church has a big, well-lit sign outside, usually with a catchy/corny phrase that makes me chuckle or roll my eyes. But that's not the secret.
Once a week when I'm driving home at night I drive past this church, and its parking lot is full. There's a sign out front that says "Wednesday Night Praise and Worship Service." I've never been inside, I have no idea who they are. I look in the windows as I sit at the red light and I see a congregation raising their hands to the roof. It feels a little voyeuristic. But that's not the secret.
The secret is that, sometimes, I want to pull the car over, get out, and go inside. I'll stand in the middle of them, I'll raise my hands and close my eyes and sing, sing as loud as I can and with all of my heart. I'll sing and laugh and cry until all the pent up feelings inside me are spent.
Then the light changes, and I shake myself out of it, and I remind myself that I'm better than that, that I don't give in to silly emotionalism, that I'm not as weak or foolish as they probably are. I press the accelerator and keep driving, but slower this time. I can hardly see the road through my tears.
posted by Grey Owl at 9:20 a.m.
25 Comments:
Well Dan, when you clear the air, you really clear the air! Thanks so much for this post. It clears a lot up for me. You know, if I'd ever been run over by a car, I'd probably have a hard time thinking of cars as anything but dangerous weapons. You were emotionally run over by hypocrisy and wrong teaching, and you've got every reason to be mad and hurt. For as you long as you need to be. (psych 101 - right back at ya)
Would you be surprised that I agree with you on pretty much all of that? I hate songs that misrepresent the Bible, and I hate even more songs that try to manipulate my emotions. So I don't use them. But it's a subjective decision. What seems to me like an emotionally manipulative song may not be so for someone else.
You're right- music and worship aren't synonymous. Music is part of worship usually, but it doesn't have to be there.
Can I just say this-- ? Not all church song leaders/musicians want to manipulate your emotions. Not all will use songs that don't hold up theologically. And it really makes some of us uncomfortable when folks equate the worship with the music.
Does it help at all to know that some worship musicians struggle with the same issues as you? I hope so. In turn, I appreciate your candor, because it reminds me that not everyone hears what I hear in the music, and to be sensitive to that. Thanks, Dan.
With me, it's less about how bad and misguided the music tends to be (I even have a few Christian favorite albums, over time, but many fewer than my other, more creative albums that line the wall), it's a simple matter of the intent of prayer and religion to me. I've always thought that religion on the corner, religion just for the sake of being seen, arrogant, public religion, is EXACTLY what drags religion down from the eyes of an outside observer. I find it more sincere to the ideal of a God to pray when no one is watching. Singing is an expression of outward joy to share with others, yeah, you can argue. But how many of these Christian rock bands are really about that? Few.
Neal Bailey
Cindy - I'm glad we agree about alot of this. I think that, for me, alot of this issue has come down to the person leading worship - who they are, how they act and what they're like in their personal life. Case in point: I don't know if you've heard of Canadian Christian artist John Buller, but he's a good friend and I've known him for years. When he's up there on stage, I've got no problem. But put a Darlene Z. (hillsongs) up on stage and I feel like faking a seizure in the aisle.
I'm glad this strikes a chord with you. I'll admit, it felt good to get this off my chest. I sent the article to a friend to proofread and she admitted it "made her cry" at the end. I wasn't trying to evoke an emotional response, but I know that sometimes - and with certain subject matter - an emotional response is hard to avoid/hold in. Should worship be more like that, with the emotion as a side occurance and not the main attraction?
Neal - thanks for stopping by! I hope people reading this will check out the link to your site on the sidebar. When you said: "I've always thought that religion on the corner, religion just for the sake of being seen, arrogant, public religion, is EXACTLY what drags religion down from the eyes of an outside observer. I find it more sincere to the ideal of a God to pray when no one is watching" - that is almost verbatum of what Christ had to say on the matter. Good point. And I'll agree with you about contemporary Christian music - I've got maybe 3 Christian cd's in my library of 100+ that get any kind on regular rotation. I've also noticed - and this may just be my anally high musical standards - that the majority of contemporary christian music is quite low in quality when compared to secular music. You get bands that are "A Christian Pearl Jam" or "A Christian Nine Inch Nails," then you crack open the case and out comes the suck. I think that they should be judged by their musical talent and then their faith. But that's just me. In any case, thanks for your insights.
Always feels better after a good rant, eh? Much of the early impetus for my christian journey came through charismatic groups. After about three years of smiling incessantly [at least when there was anyone around] my face muscles got tired and i found myself singing: "I've got Jesus in my heart / that's why I wear this silly grin / I am in / free of sin.' Lyrically it stands up pretty good to much cont.christian / praise music.
Martyn Joseph, when he played at the West End last year, talked about when he was quite involved with the christian music scene he was forever encountering people who said 'I'd just like to play for you a song that the Lord gave me' - and that usually he could understand pretty easily why the Lord was trying to get rid of that one. btw. his song 'I am a liberal backslider" is a must, it was an early anthem at Greenbelt.
My teeth gnash over one classic: "Shine Jesus Shine" - not just because of the lyrics, but once it gets inside your head, it's like Shari Lewis' 'This is the song that never ends' - you CAN'T get it out of your head no matter what you do. Damn. it's happening right now. Some songs only come out with prayer and fasting.
Grey Owl,
Let me just say, as a worship leader, you're gonna burn in hellfire and damnation for this post!!
Just kidding. :)
"Days of Elijah" is actually theologically accurate -- IF you are part of the Latter Rain movement (denounced as heretical many years ago but the teachings just don't seem to go away). I'm always amused when I hear Baptists and Pentecostals sing it; if they realized what theology they were singing, they'd be joining you in faking seizures in the aisle! Or perhaps the seizures would be genuine...
One of my hobby horses these days (aside from ranting about biblical illiteracy) is that I wish more worship leaders would take seriously that so many, many people find singing to be one of their primary expressions of worship. If these worship songwriters would wake up and smell the incense, they'd realize what an awesome opportunity they have to impart some good, solid theological learning into people via music.
Have you noticed that one of the faves for many young people these days is In Christ Alone, which is one of the best "modern hymns" of recent years?
Finally, I hope some day you do go into that church and worship your face off in spite of yourself. Sometimes, it just does us good to put aside our "schtuff" and learn how to see/hear/experience God is ways that normally we're kinda jaded by. Take me, for instance -- we're still kind of looking around for a church here in Kelowna, and "by accident" we ended up in a Word Faith church last Sunday. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm so not into Word Faith. But God's presence was there, and I felt touched by His Spirit, although the sermon drove me up the wall and the charismaniac hype drove me further across the ceiling!
It was an opportunity for me to say to God, "okay, this is so not my kind of worship service, but I'm here, and You're here -- teach me how to worship you in spite of what's happening around me".
Fortunately, God was gracious enough to (a) help me worship in spite of everything, and (b) bring Len & Betty Hjalmarson over later that day for some good old emerging fellowship!
God is good, all the time.
Grey Owl,
Thanks for this very authentic, honest post. I hurt with you as your wounds in this regards came so clearly through in your words. I think many of us have experienced in degrees, the realities you share here.
I wonder, though, if the whole "worship is a lifestyle" line is not an over-simplification? If worship is just that, then it ceases to be anything, as it becomes everthing. Rather, I would say that all of our lives should be worshipful, but worship maintains deeply historical and Biblical roots that significantly involve music.
While imbalanced manipulation of emotions needs to be called for what it is, I think that we have to be careful not to take it too far. Emotions are a significant and central aspect of the soul, created in the image of God. To engage emotions intentionally (when done appropriately) is very acceptable, even necessary, especially in the face of our over-cognition of faith.
The last thing I want to sound is argumentative, as I agree with most of what you posted. However, I felt somewhat... stung by such a broad brush stroke (and some specific critiques in the comments). I think people need to be aware of the theological integrity of songs, but I also think if we rejected every song that wasn't a reflection of perfect theology, we'd never praise Him in song.
I hope this comment doesn't come across as insensitive, as you confessed it would be a rant. I add my prayer with Rob's that you would be able to wroship your face off soon.
Peace,
Jamie
I have always tried to filter life through Scripture, not through emotions like the kind that come from words like hate, crap, and pissed off. Offensive words to most. I have not always done that well. The older I get and the more mistakes I make, the easier it gets.
1) Worship is emotional. (God softens or breaks the heart) I don't see how one can read Psalms and not realize that. Sunday morning is for celebratory or recharging worship. Real worship is a life style. It's what we do at work or school or don't do.
2) Just because someone gets emotional on Sunday morning does not mean it is not sincere. I know many people that have sincerely recommitted their lives to Christ over and over again when they are around the light of the Gospel and God's family instead of the dark of the world. (Including myself)
3) People feel freed up to worship openly on Sunday mornings because they are around other believers and are encouraged to do so.
4) We have to be careful not to judge the sincerity of others. I take that back. We are commanded not to. We don't know what has been in the way of a person worshiping through out the week that has been removed or looked past on Sunday.
5) It is not a lifestyle of worship to rant.
6) Worshiping together on Sunday morning helps to create a sense of unity and brotherhood. So when someone does not participate he or she could be creating disunity or causing the unbeliever or the less mature believer to stumble as he or she wonders what is up with the person with the scowl on his face while we are worshipping.
7) I am not into singing. I can not remember the songs. But it sure makes me smile and feel joy when I am around others who are feeling real joy for probably the only time all week.
8) Nailing an author for his lyrics is tearing down a believer in Christ instead of building him up. It is impossible to see the splinter in the eyes of a brother when their is a huge plank blocking one's view.
9) Worship is an attitude of the heart. When I go to church with the wrong attitude I can dislike everything from the coffee to the last amen. When I go to curch with an attitude of worship, it all brings me joy.
Just a thought or a few
Royal
Thanks for the response guys! I'm glad my rant didn't make you think less of me - or if it did, I'm glad you still lower yourselves to comment on my humble blog!
Bill - It sounds like we have some similar experiences, maybe even some of the same friends! Thanks for your insights - but I have to say, I'm upset that you brought up that song. Now it's in MY head, too...
Rob - re: theological teachings in worship songs - EXACTLY. That's the best description of it I've heard yet. "If these worship songwriters would wake up and smell the incense, they'd realize what an awesome opportunity they have to impart some good, solid theological learning into people via music." I think that this is a point that needs to be made. Too many songs are shakey at best when you question their accuracy.
I remember sitting listening to a Delirious (Delerious?) cd with my friend Garret the Monergist, and he pointed out all of the lyrics that directly/indirectly contradicted scripture. Or another time with Tyler the Charismatic Calvinist when he lamented the misuse of greek/hebrew words in contemporary song/prayers. And then they're that Steve Bell interview... do you think we're on to something? BTW, thanks for the head up on "Days of Elijah." I knew there was a reason I couldn't stand it.
Jamie - I am deeply honoured and touched that you "hurt with me" through this. I know that you mean that, and having criticisms/disagreements made in love is what I need.
In regards to worship as a lifestyle, you said, "Rather, I would say that all of our lives should be worshipful, but worship maintains deeply historical and Biblical roots that significantly involve music." That's an important distinction - our lives being worshipful and not just a "worship lifestyle." Wish I'd thought of saying it like that.
And while I'll agree that worship historically/biblically has an emphasis on music, think about this; Jesus in Matthew says a couple times, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice" - sacrifice being a major part of worship in Hebrew culture, just like praying publically et al. I think Jesus' emphasis is on our actions towards others (or, as Neal pointed out above, on our actions in private). Not to say that singing can't be worship, but don't you think that Jesus is calling us to move beyond that? Just a thought.
As an aside, Jamie, I'm sorry if anything in my rant hurt you. I certainly wasn't thinking of you specifically while I was writing it. What was it that I said that "stung" you? I appreciate your comments and your prayers, and deep down I hope that yours and Rob's prayer for me gets answered. But at the risk of sounding bitter/jaded, I'm not holding my breath. I've prayed earnestly for years for God to take this burden from me, and apparently it's not high up on his "to do" list. Again, thanks for your thoughts/prayers.
Royal, I'll get to you later. I'll respond to your points possibly tonight, but forr now I've got to run. Cheers,
Grey owl, I'm sorry that you've been disappointed by your expectations of corporate worship. It sounds like, at an important time, you received condemning messages about your relationship with God because of your response in corporate worship.
In my opinion, corporate worship is hit and miss. At times, it can be absolutely awesome, but sometimes it's not. That really doesn't matter anymore to me. I'm kind of "easy" when it comes to worship. I'll worship to good music or bad, even to theologically lame songs.
Whatever situation I am in, ultimately worship is between me and God. No one else can make me turn my heart to Him, and no circumstances can prevent me from turning my heart to Him if that is my intent. I think that more than our service or our sacrifice, God wants to know us and be known by us.
Perhaps God wants you to go inside that worship service to show you that you belong and to heal old hurts. If you go inside, it doesn't matter if the songs are good or the other peoples' expressions of worship are valid, because when you are there, it's between you and God, no one else.
(I hope this isn't too mushy Jesus. I tend to lean that way.)
Hmm. Looks like I've stirred up quite the varied response. Thanks everyone, for taking the time to respond.
Royal - I'll give a brief response to your points.
1. Sure, the psalms are very emotional. Much of scripture is humankind's emotional response to God. But some of those emotions are pain, anger, hurt, and frustration. God seems to expect us to react to him honestly with our emotions - is it honest to try and feel something you really don't because it's part of the service?
2. Didn't say they couldn't be sincere. I did say, "I'm not going to judge anyone who chooses to worship God through singing - I'm sure that many are perfectly sincere, and if it makes them more like Christ then hey, why not?"
3. I'm sure that's true for many, although feeling pressured to worship openly because everyone else is.
4. See my response to #2. Also, my criticisms of the people around me came from knowing them personnaly and seeing a dichotemy in their lives - more of an observation than a judgement.
5. Hmm. Well, fair enough. Although I think that John the Baptist, Jesus, Job, Paul, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, and every single minor prophet would disagree.
6. If I was standing with a scowl on my face, I would certainly be being disruptive. I'm very careful not to, like I said I'll read my bible or just enjoy the instrumentals (I'm a sax player myself, and whenever there's saxophones on stage it makes me smile).
7. Sounds good.
8. I don't think that theological accuracy is too much to ask for in or songs. Would you sing a song that made reference to the book of Mormon? Or the easter bunny? Just a thought.
9. Good point. And it is something that I struggle with, making sure I don't let my feelings in this regard poison my coffee or the sermon or the fellowship. It's easier when I can read my bible during the worship because then I'm actually engaging with something instead of shuffling my feet.
Do these answer your questions/criticisms?
sunshine - well if this was just an "agree with Grey Owl" party I'd be disappointed. Thanks for your honesty.
You said: "Why would God take away a burden to which you cling to so desperately? Evidence points to how jaded you still are, how hurt you still are. You seem to not want to give up your burden and join in real worship for fear that you will become like those who have hurt you." Yeah, I'm bitter. Yeah, I'm jaded. I'm also really cynical, as you probably could have guessed. But like most negative emotions, these stem from fear, which in turn stems from hurt. And I have asked God for healing from this. But I'll admit, I haven't asked in a while, because it's a little embaressing to keep asking for the same thing over and over and not get it. It's not like I'm asking God for a pony, here - just some healing for my soul. Am I holding on to this for protection? I wasn't at first. Perhaps I am now, though, and it's something to think about.
You say, "I don't know what truly holds you back from "giving it up". I wonder if it is pride, or your grudges against those who have hurt you, or your self-imposed dependence on your hyper-intellectually trained faith, or something else entirely" - yeah, those all sound right. And lately a bit of a grude against God for not taking this burden from me. Make no mistake, I've examined this from every angle. I know that I'm using this hurt as a shield. But I also know that I've asked for the strength to give it up, again and again, and gotten nothing but silence in return. I'm not doing this because I want to. You're right, I am angry. But I haven't arrived here lightly - three years of prayers and tears, and the fruits of my labours were the bitterness and hurt you hear. So please, disagree with me, but don't assume I "had a bad experience" and "just need to pray about it" - which you didn't say exactly, but it's the prescription I always get.
BTW your comment: "I fear this anger is so engrained in you and your relationship with God that they have become one and the same. How can your faith survive being choked with such pain and bitterness toward God? How much pain you must truly be in, Dan" - was very challenging, and I'm going to think about it some more.
Grace - thanks for your encouragement. And you're not being too "mushy Jesus" - rather, you're being an example to me of what someone who loves God and doesn't condemn or put down the ones who disagree with her. So thanks, and I appreciate your prayers.
You said, "Perhaps God wants you to go inside that worship service to show you that you belong and to heal old hurts. If you go inside, it doesn't matter if the songs are good or the other peoples' expressions of worship are valid, because when you are there, it's between you and God, no one else." Good point. And something I'll have to think on.
When we gather, in small groups or large, you will always find singing and dancing. Some professional, some spontaneous. Not all who are dancing sing. Not all who are singing are willing to dance. Still others sit and watch, or go find a private area for themselves in that period if they find it too distracting for their reflections.
Everybody worships differently, and you shouldn't hold a grudge against people if it is their way. Ultimately what matters is what is going on in the heart, not what outlet is preferred and enjoyed by the participants.
Royal did hit on one point though. Those that sit and watch do so with interest, not with scowls on their faces (not that I am as quickly inclined to accuse you of doing so) and if they really can't handle it, they separate themselves so neither side interferes with the other.
Remember, you have a responsibility to your relationship with God, not anybody else's.
"Remember, you have a responsibility to your relationship with God, not anybody else's."
Wanderer
We do have a certain responsibility for the walk of a weaker brother.
1 John 2:10
Anyone who loves other Christians is living in the light and does not cause anyone to stumble.
1 Cor 8:13
If what I eat is going to make another Christian sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live--for I don't want to make another Christian stumble.
1 Cor 8:9
you must be careful with this freedom of yours. Do not cause a brother or sister with a weaker conscience to stumble.
Rom 14:21
Don't eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another Christian to stumble.
5. Hmm. Well, fair enough. Although I think that John the Baptist, Jesus, Job, Paul, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Elijah, and every single minor prophet would disagree.
There are rants and there are RANTS. Prophets are called to be leaders of God's people and speak to them for God. Some of the prophets rants were from God and some of them were of their own weakness and were not good rants. (They were sin)
You are the one that warned us it was a rant. Moses, Job, Paul, and all the minor prophets also sinned in other areas of their lives, that does not make it right when I sin. Their sin is recorded to teach us a lesson and so that we can better understand God's mercy and grace.
When we rant (get things off our chest) it is important that we rant with respect and in the context of the Love of Jesus and that our rant does not cause someone else to stumble. There are things I say to God, or someone close to me, when I am angry that are not good to say in public. God can handle it. It may knock someone else off track.
I was reponding to why I disagreed with your judgement on Worship and to the bend it took of anger.
I assumed you had a scowl on your face during worship because of the tone of the rant. I apologize for that judgement or assumption.
As far as emotion goes in Worship. Many a tear flows on Sunday morning that are brought on by pain rather than joy. I have cried out for God to remove the pain in the middle of a song more than once.
Sunday's songs don't have to be Bible Scripture. Most are human prayers written by human authors, as were the Psalms, talking to God about how people feel, and worshiping God for the things He does. I agree, if a song goes against the beliefs and values of Christ-followers or scripture, it is the job of the elders and pastors of the church to take that song off the play list. As a pastor, I would not allow a song about the Easter bunny or a song that taught anything but the truth.
Your Bro. in Christ
Royal
Wanderer - you said, "Everybody worships differently, and you shouldn't hold a grudge against people if it is their way. Ultimately what matters is what is going on in the heart, not what outlet is preferred and enjoyed by the participants." - Very true, although I am not irritated with people for worshipping with sincere emotion - I think I mentioned that - I just want to make sure that the worship I give (singing or otherwise) is genuine. And due to the actions of some VERY SPECIFIC individuals in my life, I have cause to doubt my worship (as well as theirs, but as you say, their worship is none of my business). It's less about what others do as opposed to what is expected of me.
Royal - I think you may be misinterpreting the intent of my rant. This was for the purpose (as you say) of getting it off my chest, in all honesty with my feelings and experinces. I exhibited anger, sure, but also pain, longing and frustration. I also gave a warning at the beginning - it's not like I gave this as a sermon at my church. I like to think I know most of the people who come here, and felt comfortable airing these thoughts where they could read them. You are correct, though; there could have been "weaker" christians reading. Next time I'll give a stronger warning at the beginning.
Re: the notational scowl - no harm done.
I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree about this rant being sinful. I can't find anything in scripture that discourages people from honesty. And I air it here in the hopes of locating kindred spirits or perhaps (selfishly) looking for some guidance or comfort. If you feel I'm in some way targeting you directly, feel better, 'cause I ain't.
You said, "As far as emotion goes in Worship. Many a tear flows on Sunday morning that are brought on by pain rather than joy. I have cried out for God to remove the pain in the middle of a song more than once...I agree, if a song goes against the beliefs and values of Christ-followers or scripture, it is the job of the elders and pastors of the church to take that song off the play list." - I think we're agreeing more than we're disagreeing.
Sunshine - You said, "I ask you, when did I disagree with you? I only tried to understand you. I felt for you. Once again, your language points to how bitter you are. You acknowledge I didn't exactly say that you had a bad experience and "just need to pray about it", but that's exactly what you pulled from what I wrote, isn't it?" you're right, of course. I did hear something in what you were saying that reminded me of things I've been told before, even if you didn't say them. So I wasn't giving what you were saying a fair shot. My bad.
I'm glad that what I wrote resonated with you. And I'm glad that you understand me - I can tell that your concern is genuine. But I wasn't comparing myself to a prophet - the last thing God needs is a prophet like me! I think I'm a bit closer to Job, although I can't lay claim to the same circumstances.
Perhaps you are right; perhaps this is a "cry for help". Although I can feel stirrings of pride in my heart as I say that, telling me to deny it, you may be more right than you know. You say, "
You also defend your bitterness, almost claiming your right to it by declaring "I haven't arrived here lightly"... You dwell on it." I suppose I do. But for now I can't think of anything else to do.
Thanks for your prayers. And personally I think you've shown alot of wisdom. I don't think it's necessary for you to hold a degree in theology to speak truth into their life. I hope you keep commenting here.
Dandy your rant didn't bother me in the least, but the comments trouble me a bit. First, let's clear a couple of things - worship music is very tied to culture. As cultures change so does music. It's also optional - I led worship in a Deaf church for years without music and our worship was vibrant and lifegiving [well, on good days anyways].
What's happened here though, is that your rant has done what any good rant ought to have done - it has unsettled people. [this is the essence of all prophetic ministry, right]. This unsettling has created some anxiety for folk, and so they have responded by pathologizing you. You become a weaker bother, someone who needs help, like one of those mutant frogs they keep finding in North Dakota or wherever.
Why pathologize? Why not simply accept that not all music works for all people? Because you have hit on some important stuff. If it doesn't work for someone else, that means I can't apply my blanket solutions, I have to become contextual. This kind of worship works well for some folk, it's alienating to others. Refusing to become contextual however means we end up creating expectations that people are going to respond a certain way, the way they should respond that way [I saw Ernst Angly (sp?) bop a woman three times in the head - with increasing force each time - because she didn't get slain in the spirit on command].
Our tendency to pathologize those who raise difficult questions is well attested in scripture. Job had a hard time getting rid of his pathologizers. The thing is they meant well, it's just they were operating out of their own anxiety, rather than out of any kind of Godspace.
Why do you think this raises such anxiety for people?
Mutant Frogs from North Dakota would be an AWESOME name for a band...
Bill, I think it raises anxiety for people because it challenges them in a very personal area. I wonder how many people base their faith on an experience they had in worship? I think the saying goes "If your faith can't take a little shaking it must not have had a strong foundation." So I hear what you're saying. And I think you make a good point about music not being "for all people."
Problem is, I'm longing for something genuine. And I am bitter and jaded, as sunshine pointed out. I'm willing to admit that fault in order to have an honest conversation with everyone. I am fully aware that I am a weaker brother. And I appreciate your insights/defense, my friend!
Grey Owl - Small point, but I think the harming of weaker brothers comment was at least heavily directed at my comment about it not being your responsibility how your brother communes with God.
Sunshine - A clarification on the above. I am not above people trying to assist others in their communion with God, or helping those in weaker moments. I am against trying to force them to walk the precise path you do.
When Moses led the people through the desert, do you suppose they walked single file? Of course not. That would have been impractical. As such, while the same journey was made, different paths were taken, and thus minor differences in experience occurred.
In order for any two entities to interact, both have to reach out to the other. If someone is communing with God, that means that he has come to an understanding with God as to the "how" of it. When someone's faith is driven by God, it is foolish and shameful of us to play backseat driver.
D- one more thing (I can only assume you're ready to put this one to rest!). You know where I stand and that I think you have every right to feel and say what you feel -- especially on your own blog! There was a time not long ago, when in worship I sat and did my best not to listen- at least to the choir. When I did listen, to the music - songs I didn't care for done in a style I didn't care for, (and I'm toning that way down)-- well, I found that I stopped worshiping and started thinking how much I disliked the music, etc... When I found a way not to listen, I know my heart was more pleasing to God. Then a year and a half ago I was asked to lead singing in a new service with different music. Now there are probably folks out there doing their best to not listen when I sing. That's okay with me. Sometimes God puts us in places to intentionally stretch us. I didn't enjoy it much, but I probably learned something. Enough said. NO need for a long reply- or any at all. Get some rest!
Wanderer - point taken, although I don't think sunshine was saying everyone should worship her way. I didn't think your comments were out of line. And I think your "backseat driver" comment applies strongly to me, even if it was intended for others. I'll keep it in mind.
Cindy - thanks for your encouragement. I'd actually love to keep chatting about this if there's still interest, although I'm sure some will eventually get sick of me...
Grey Dan Owl-D,
I agree 100%: Mutant Frogs from North Dakota would be a great name for a band!
Old Bill, is that "Earnest Angry" you're referring to? :) I've been in services where people pushed me over if I didn't respond properly. As irritating as that was, once I was on the floor anyway, I just said, "Okay, Lord, here I am on the floor. As long as I'm already here, anything You want to say?"
Dandy,
I just got back from vacation to find that you have been fairly shredded in the comment section. I thought I would write again for clarity and somewhat of a defence.
First, you didn't sting me personally, only I felt the sting of a sweeping generalization. However, that comes with being part of a Body, doesn't it? As you said, the many Psalms were rants that reflected the experience (good and bad) of the psalmist. So you good ahead a rant, brother!
So let me restate: I share many of your concerns about contemporary "musical" worship, though have not been burned as you have. I have my own areas of burnage, so I can at least empathize (don't get me started).
My only challenge, really, was the potential danger of dismissing musical worship (or other cultural forms) altogether, simply because they were abused by some (that is what Prohibition did for booze and we all know how THAT one worked out). Also, I wanted to defend emotional experiences (within a discerning balance) as Godly experiences. The charge of "emotionalism" and "manipulation" can be thrown around very easily, but remember that clever words and confidence can do the same for the intellect, though we rarely cry against that.
In the end, though, I think your post is an EXCELLENT one that needed to be shared. Thanks for the courage and vulnerability. That being said, I don't think your brokenness makes you the weaker brother. In fact, I think it makes you human. Not to mention, an important reminder to the rest of us.
Love ya, bro!
Peace,
Jamie
Rob - someday you'll have to hear Jamie's story about "slaying people in the spirit." It's awesome!
Jamie - it is as you say; the intellect is manipulatable as well. Perhaps I'll write on that someday... thanks for the encouragement!
Excellent post Dan, I totally get where you're coming from and have had plenty of similar experiences in worship, whic is one of the reasons that I've moved on from where I was.
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